The Little Mermaid (Live-Action)

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Disney's Divinity
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Re: The Little Mermaid (Live-Action)

Post by Disney's Divinity »

I also read some story about a scare when Javier Bardem fell 15 feet (he had been 40 feet in the air). I'm glad he wasn't hurt.
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Re: The Little Mermaid (Live-Action)

Post by Disney Duster »

Vlad, ok, I almost agree Disney animation can't be put in live-action, but since I like 2015 Cinderella so much, I think it can be done. There are some things that film does better than the original (more focus on humans and love and story, less on the animals).

UmbrellaFish, of course, and I agree about how Ariel tells Eric her name. Not only was it funny, it was romantic (she plays with his lips!), it was a good addition/change!

Mooky, yes, yes! You are right about the amnesia spell! What is Ariel doing on land? What the hell is she thinking?, like Marce82 said. This however was not the first time a Disney remake went back to the original fairy tale. In the Beauty and the Beast remake, Belle asks for a rose for her father to bring her back, like in the fairy tale. I actually liked that change and how it related to her getting imprisoned. Anyway, you gave a great review! I completely agree about the scale and blood pact!

Divinity, ok, we will also agree to disagree backlash changed this film. Also, yes, hopefully Javier didn't get hurt.

Carolinakid, because there had been some misinformation spread that Flotsam and Jetsam were not going to be in this film, but later we heard they were in the film but didn't talk, Divinity wondered if they CGIed them into the film with no one interacting with them.
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Re: The Little Mermaid (Live-Action)

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‘The Little Mermaid’ Criticized By Prominent Diversity Advocate For Its “Dangerous” Erasure Of Slavery
https://deadline.com/2023/06/the-little ... 235397950/
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Re: The Little Mermaid (Live-Action)

Post by Mooky »

Disney Duster wrote: Wed May 31, 2023 10:48 pm Mooky, yes, yes! You are right about the amnesia spell! What is Ariel doing on land? What the hell is she thinking?, like Marce82 said. This however was not the first time a Disney remake went back to the original fairy tale. In the Beauty and the Beast remake, Belle asks for a rose for her father to bring her back, like in the fairy tale. I actually liked that change and how it related to her getting imprisoned. Anyway, you gave a great review! I completely agree about the scale and blood pact!
Thank you Duster! And thanks for reminding me about the rose in BatB, it totally slipped my mind.
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Re: The Little Mermaid (Live-Action)

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Farerb wrote: Thu Jun 01, 2023 7:24 am ‘The Little Mermaid’ Criticized By Prominent Diversity Advocate For Its “Dangerous” Erasure Of Slavery
https://deadline.com/2023/06/the-little ... 235397950/
....they do know that this is a fictional movie where Mermaids are real and the world has a totally different history...right?
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Re: The Little Mermaid (Live-Action)

Post by Marce82 »

Well, that's the problem when people get overly focused on setting these stories in real locations. Whatever happened with "long ago, faraway land"??? This is also why it bothered me that they mentioned real places... Cartagena? Brazil? Europe (and it's use of quinine... I think)?
If you set the story in a real time and place, then Disney: don't complain when people demand historical accuracy.

That said, I'm surprised that no one has pointed out the hinted colonialism in the movie: royals speak with a british accent and dress a certain way, while villagers have another accent and clothing style (remember the shoe vs sandal issue?).

The original movie was just a small, vaguely European kingdom... no need to get historical accuracy involved.
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Re: The Little Mermaid (Live-Action)

Post by D82 »

According to the costume designer, the pink dress Ariel wears at the end of the film is her wedding dress. Here's a better look at it that was released recently and some words by Colleen Atwood:

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Source: https://www.instagram.com/p/CsraI9yux2O/

I modelled after a period that was loosely 1830s but I made the clothes out of materials like pineapple cloth for Ariel’s wedding dress and really sheer organzas or things that I felt could almost be underwater; you could see the light pass through them and things like that.
Source: https://vogue.sg/the-little-mermaid-costume-design/

The top layers of the dress are piña, or pineapple silk, made out of the cellulosic fibers of pineapple plant leaves. Atwood was drawn to the light and crisp texture of the biodegradable material, which dates back to the Spanish colonial period of the Philippines.

"I liked the idea that, conceivably, they could have made the fabric on the island," says Atwood, pointing out the neutral piña was then layered over a light pink fabric. The square patterns on the bodice bring fisherman's netting or fish scales to mind. The detailed coral-pink embroidery on the skirt tiers offer more Easter eggs.

"[The embroidery] was all kinds of sea life, like little squids — without getting too cute with it," says Atwood. "But it was fun. It's her world, and they're the things she loved. It's her wedding."
Source: https://fashionista.com/2023/05/the-lit ... -hair-2023 (via Disney Live-Actions Brasil)
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Re: The Little Mermaid (Live-Action)

Post by Disney Duster »

You're welcome, Mooky!

My friend said it was her wedding dress and I thought it was her honeymoon dress. So it was her wedding dress! I don't like all of it, but the sleeves and skirt are kinda nice.
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Re: The Little Mermaid (Live-Action)

Post by Thumper_93 »

Ariel is very adventurous in the movie and I feel that the dress is appropiate with her personality. It looks comfy and pretty and it seems simple but it actually has much details.
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Re: The Little Mermaid (Live-Action)

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‘The Little Mermaid’ Review-Bombing Prompts IMDb to Tweak Rating System
https://www.thewrap.com/mean-reviews-th ... ng-system/
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Re: The Little Mermaid (Live-Action)

Post by Thumper_93 »

Wow it seems that these People are very bored and the only thing that they can do to have fun is write false opinions and complain about a movie...
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Re: The Little Mermaid (Live-Action)

Post by UmbrellaFish »

Jodi Benson says she has recorded a secret project for Disney: https://twitter.com/VERONASFILMS/status ... 46849?s=20

Fans are speculating Jodi and Halle are recording a duet, but I’m not sure. Jodi’s recording is definitely Ariel related, though, based on the picture.
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Re: The Little Mermaid (Live-Action)

Post by Disney's Divinity »

Possibly the DisneyJunior show.

I think that's ugly for any dress, much less for a 'wedding' dress. I'll still think of it as some kind of honeymoon or whatever (since they made sure nothing about the ending tells you it's a wedding :roll: ). The original wedding dress is 10X that outfit, dated or not. Little things like that are why I'm sort of two minds on the box office, I think it sort of deserves to only barely break even, perhaps lose a few million. Not TLM property itself, just the people who made the decisions on this remake don't really deserve to have the kind of success Aladdin, B&tB, and TLK's remakes managed, imo, and things like that and random name changes / song cuts are the reason why.

Anyway, it's a shame the Diane Warren ballad didn't happen. They could've had it come after the "UtS" re-play like the "B&tB" pop version played after "How Does a Moment Last Forever." *small spoiler* Btw, I liked how the shots that suggested Ursula during the credits were during one of the lines that are appropriate (I think it was either "The fish on the land ain't happy, they sad 'cause they in the bowl" or "Guess who's goin' be on the plate"). :lol:
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Re: The Little Mermaid (Live-Action)

Post by Marce82 »

I admit I used to be a little suspicious of the review bombing... but the movie getting that many 1's (in a 1 to 10 scale) definitely seems off. The movie is hardly a 10, but it's not that bad. Not to be deemed a 1. Now... Peter Pan and Wendy, that could be a 1! Hahahah.

Here is another interesting video... I love how they point out that Eric wasn't that undeveloped in the original:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-AMg2zr0ccA
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Re: The Little Mermaid (Live-Action)

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To me this film is a 5/10, maybe 6 on a good day.
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Re: The Little Mermaid (Live-Action)

Post by Disney's Divinity »

Yeah, with Ariel being a massive departure from the Walt princesses, Eric was also more developed than the Walt princes (although not quite as big a jump from them as Ariel was from the princesses, but he was a stepping stone to stronger male characters like the Beast and Aladdin who did go the full distance).

I think I'd give this film an 8-ish (I rarely use .'s, yet a 7.5 feels right somehow) out of 10. Anyway, I'm sure there is review bombing, but like with PP&W, I'm skeptical that it makes a massive difference in its score. From the last time I looked, its Top Critics and All Audience scores were the same at 47%. So you'd have to say the critics were also review bombing it, I guess? At most, I could see the All Audience score being around 10-15 points higher at most if you erased the review bombing aspect, which still would put it just above a score in the 50's.

*small spoiler* I couldn't help thinking it's doubly a shame that the rainbow ending wasn't there--not simply because it's a great part of the ending that's now lacking but also because this film is out just before Pride Month and was one of the two Ashman masterpieces (I know he worked on Aladdin, too, he was just not as in control because of the illness and there were a lot of changes at the end). But then Disney was going to delete his documentary from the streaming service right before Pride Month, too, so...
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Re: The Little Mermaid (Live-Action)

Post by PatchofBlue »

8/10 is about where I'd put this one too, which is a perfectly respectable score in my book.

But I can see where this would be a 10/10 for some people, especially in the context of like black girls getting to see themselves in a Disney Princess besides Tiana. I read this post on Facebook a couple of days ago that was really touching
https://www.facebook.com/Jacalynwetzelw ... 1etH9hWjHl

On the other hand, I can't see legitimate reasons for so many people giving it a 1/10. Even if a person is like adamantly against Disney remakes on principle, this is not even close to their worst one. So the argument that the 1s and 10s are somehow cancelling each other out doesn't really hold for me.


Anyways, a week after that fateful viewing, I've had some time to sort through my own thoughts and piece my own reaction a little more ...

Starting with things I DIDN'T like ...

I respect that they didn't want to mess with perfection, but they also had room to play around with more of the details of the narrative, and it still would have been a "faithful adaptation." I felt like something around 50% percent of the lines from this film were lifted directly from the animated film. There were a few lines that obviously came from the animated film but they modified like one or two words, like Scuttle's "Have I ever been wrong? I mean when it's important?" vs "Have I ever been wrong? I mean when it counted?" That created a sort of uncanny valley effect for me.

And then there were changes that kind of cluttered the film for me. These weren't wall-to-wall for me like some of the other remakes, but I still think it speaks to a qualitative difference between how they made the animated film and this remake. One that I keep coming back to is how they play Eric after Vanessa shows up. In the animated film, it's clear that by the end of the second day Eric has chosen Ariel and that the only reason Ariel doesn't get the kiss is because Ursula is manipulating him magic to make him fall for Vanessa, but here it's not totally clear whether Eric is legit under a magic spell or whether he's still halted between two opinions. As a result, when Eric goes all "it was you all the time," it kinda feels like the only reason he's choosing Ariel over Vanessa is in fact because he realizes that she is the fantasy girl he was after. In the animated film, it doesn't read as him being flimsy because that discovery comes after he had definitively chosen Ariel, and he was only stopped from ratifying that choice with a kiss because he was in fact stripped of his agency in the intervening time. I may have to watch that scene again to get a better read of it, but it kinda felt like they were undermining his whole arc, and their whole romance, by playing it this way.

I was skeptical of the amnesia caveat when that was leaked, but I'm even more confused by it after the fact because it did not have any kind of pay-off in this film. None at all. It doesn't meaningfully change how the romance plays out, it is not something that Ariel has to overcome. It is useless story material, and I can't even really wrap my mind around why they felt the need to include it. The best I can come up with is that they were responding to complaints that Ariel doesn't rush to kiss Eric in those final moments before the third sunset, so they tried to justify it by giving Ariel and excuse to not hurry up and kiss the dude.

I had known for a long time that Ariel was going to be the one to kill Ursula. I've said before that it's a perfectly valid choice even if I don't think that Ariel needs to in order to qualify as feminist, but I don't think that just having Ariel and Eric swap places was the way to go. I feel like there is no internal logic for Ursula zeroing in on Eric like that except communicating to the audience that they were S U B V E R T I N G E X P E C T A T I O N S by having Eric be the "damsel in distress." Leading up to the kill shot, I had thought maybe they were going to play it like this is her getting back at Eric for contributing to the death of Flotsam and Jetsam, which would have been tangential but at least somewhat connected to her motivations, but Ursula's only rationale was "So long, lover boy!" This is another space where I felt like the film would have benefited from going off-book and creating an original scenario where Ariel's victory would have felt organic. Eric was just a third-tier pawn in Ursula's game, her main adversaries have been Ariel and Triton all along, so that's where her attention should have logically been during this segment. If they had written a scenario where Ariel somehow takes out Ursula while her attention was on Triton, that would have made sense to me.

Again, I think it's perfectly valid to want Ariel to take out the villain in her own story, but I'm still waiting for Disney to pull off that story element convincingly and satisfyingly.


And that's kind of the summation of things that bothered me.

Things that I really LIKED ...

This arguably had the best all-around cast of any of the remakes. I think Halle brought all of Ariel's sweetness and spirit without crossing over into saccharinity, which is where most LA princess characters tend to go. She and Jonah had such fantastic chemistry. And as someone who was vocally upset over the casting of a comedic actress like McCarthy in the role of the bad guy, I want to offer this public apology because McCarthy actually filled a hole left by a decade without Disney animated villains. The voice cast was all on point, with Awkwafina probably being the standout. I see a lot of people haven't really been feeling Bardem's performance. I didn't personally share that sentiment. He didn't have any particular standout moments for me, but I also think that by design his character doesn't give off the same energy as the rest of the cast, and I liked the sort of Shakespearean quality he brought to the film.

The Andersen quote at the start sent me into an emotional spiral that I never really recovered from, as did the serene score from that first minute of the film. Acknowledging the source material like that was not only clever and respectful, I think it also showed a level of understanding to why this story has endured for so long. More than just a generic homage, the specific passage they chose from the text indicated that they not only actually read the story this film came from, but understood it on a thematic, emotional level. With that one creative choice they did a lot to earn my trust.

The visuals were nice for me. I still would have preferred that Atlantica be like an actual underwater palace and not just a cluster of rocks, but the depth, color, and texture of the undersea world made me glad I actually did the 3d viewing this time.

"Under the Sea" was probably the best number for me. Going in I had some concerns about the fish gesticulating their fins in a way that evoked human dancing, but even with that, the staging of the scene alone kinda made me understand why this film deserved a live-action remake beyond just it being next on the list. Ariel riding on the sea turtles as they cha-cha'd on the ocean bed was probably the highlight for me.

Concerning the new songs, I prefer "Wild Uncharted Waters" over "For the First Time" in terms of inherent musical value, but I preferred the execution for Ariel's number over Eric's in the context of the film itself. Eric's number adds more to the story as a whole (and just fills a gap left by the love interest not having any song), but I don't think that the visuals of the song added anything to the experience. Ariel's song, on the other hand, didn't feel as essential to me, but I think it worked better with the onscreen visuals. The fantasy bit toward the climax of the song where Ariel is singing in her own head helped build anticipation for her finally meeting Eric, which then added to the drop when she realizes what losing her voice really cost her. I actually would have really liked seeing the whole number play that way where every time we hear Ariel singing, we kind of enter that darkened theater space where Ariel is vocalizing her thoughts, and then just have the final verse play out with voice over in the "real world."

All around, I think this one landed a lot better than it had any right to.
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Re: The Little Mermaid (Live-Action)

Post by Disney's Divinity »

I think casual filmgoers are very extreme in their ratings, not subtle like critics are. When they love and hate things, they aren't rational, they go for 1 or 10 automatically. It's just like on that game show Family Feud, you never guess random numbers like 7 or 6 in the final round, since you're trying to match the people surveyed who often go for 1, 5, or 10. Anyway, people hated many different things about this film from what I've read across different places--the CGI animals, the changes to songs, designs, names, and score, several different actors in the cast (particularly Bardem--another of my unpopular opinions, I guess :lol: ), Scuttlebutt, etc. On that last one, I saw an article a week back with a title asking if "Scuttlebutt" might be the worst Disney song ever, so...

*SPOILERS for the rest of the post* I actually thought it was still pretty clear Eric was set on real girl standing in front of him" Ariel versus mythical dream Ariel in his memory here? The scene of them getting back to the castle and hiding from Grimsby and the Queen after "Kiss the Girl" actually felt a little risque, much like Lady and Tramp waking up together after "Bella Notte." As far as Ursula zeroing in on Eric in the climax, Ariel is also an irrelevant pawn to Ursula in many ways. That's why F&J's death is practically necessary to have her react so extremely to Ariel to justify that action type ending, since she doesn't really care about her except only in so far as she just likes to kill people's dreams in general.

I also liked Bardem's Triton. He was one of those I was expecting not to like going in since I haven't liked some of his past acting performances that I've seen, and ended up surprised. You mentioning the Shakespearean thing may be part of why I liked him. Both he and Ursula in the original had this Shakespearean, primordial conflict type of feeling, and that same quality also extends to Ariel (and Triton's conflict with her) as well, even if Ariel is a less concentrated dose of it than those two. The extremely driven, contrary, almost star-crossed, desire part of her feels Shakespearean-esque--as well as tying perfectly into musical tropes of "I Want" songs like "Over the Rainbow"--but they weave it into a typical '80s teen vibe. Not different from how Ursula is woven with the whole Divine inspiration and general Disney villain vampiness, but it doesn't take away quite as much of the Shakespeare quality with her as with Ariel. I think that whole Shakespeare aspect is part of why Ariel is such an interesting protagonist with actual sharp edges and not cookie cutter like so many family film protagonists tend to be.

I like "Wild Uncharted Waters" a little more with repeated listens. He's not a great singer any more than McCarthy of course, and he has some weird enunciations at times much like Bailey. The song is best at the 2:08 mark onward, that's probably my favorite part. It's one of those funny things for me--WUW is probably the best of the new songs here and the only one that really fits the general sound of the movie, but FtFT definitely does have the best scene whereas Eric's song is really just him jumping around and jutting his pelvis out amidst splashing waves ( :lol: ) in a way that makes me think of "Agony" from Into the Woods. On a purely song basis, I liked "Evermore" and "Speechless" better than WUW, although only "Evermore" had the combo of a great song and a great scene ("Speechless" being one of those frozen moments that aren't much fun like "Waiting on a Miracle" in Encanto), which "Evermore" probably needed since it's sort of held back by the vocal effects the Beast had.

Btw, completely separate tangent here--discussing the amnesia last page and how it feels like it's only there to make Ursula more deserving of being attacked by Ariel and Eric at the end, it made me think about Return to the Sea of all things. I've always sort of hated that movie and how it simply re-creates the first movie plotwise with only a few interesting things (Pat Carroll being Pat Carroll but that goes for Mars, Wright, and Benson, too, really, "For a Moment," Ariel and Melody's confrontation in Morgana's hideout, the ice castle at the end, Triton's badass wiping out of Morgana and her utter terror at him [and how that differs from Ursula who was much more his equal], etc.). Anyway, thinking of the fact that Ariel and Eric are somewhat unjustified in taking on Ursula since the deal was pretty fair as far as Ursula not lying about any part of it, in a way the idea of a relative coming into the picture to use Ursula's previous claim to help themselves out is sort of interesting since it plays into real world logic as far as the games around thrones go--and naturally relying on the threat of violence towards Melody to counterbalance Triton's extreme power would be necessary for any comer. And, too, a blackmail attempt of Triton having been successful before in Ursula seems like it would inevitably cause successive attempts at blackmail. If only Morgana as a character wasn't so much of a lazy rehash of Ursula (only lesser) aside from that.
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Re: The Little Mermaid (Live-Action)

Post by Sotiris »

Disney's Divinity wrote: Fri Jun 02, 2023 5:00 pmOn that last one, I saw an article a week back with a title asking if "Scuttlebutt" might be the worst Disney song ever, so...
There have been several articles proclaiming "Scuttlebutt" the worst Disney song, including one from Rolling Stone and Daily Beast, and I hate that Menken is now associated with this "honor" because of LMM. :glare:
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Re: The Little Mermaid (Live-Action)

Post by D82 »

Speaking of "The Scuttlebutt", Disney has released the full musical number online. Here are also a new clip featuring Triton and Sebastian and new official stills featuring Vanessa.
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