Pocahontas 20th Anniversary

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JeanGreyForever
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Re: Pocahontas 20th Anniversary

Post by JeanGreyForever »

You're welcome! I adore Irene Bedard so I always love to hear from her on anything she has to say. Especially since she was unfortunately stuck in an abusive relationship a few years back with her husband and I remember that there wasn't a lot of awareness about that. I think she's been in a much better place since then though and I know she still appears at fan conventions alongside Jodi Benson, Paige O'Hara, and Linda Larkin to this day so that's nice.

Typically our favorite Disney films are the ones that harbor a personal connection so I'm not surprised that Pocahontas struck a chord with you based on where you grew up. I think it's so neat that while growing up you felt that maybe you could have been walking in the same places that the real Pocahontas might have herself been in, even if that didn't turn out to be true.

And I agree with you that while Disney's Pocahontas has problematic elements, what people don't seem to realize is that none of this originated because of Disney. They continued the myth that has been spread in this country for over 100 years. I mean in the early 1900s I remember reading that one of the most popular plays was about the love story of Pocahontas and John Smith. White Americans seem to really have grasped onto her because she doesn't threaten their existence in this country due to her pleas for peace and unity and how she herself married an English settler (even if now there is evidence that she was kidnapped and raped before being married off to John Rolfe without consent). And critics never bashed Terrence Malick's The New World which was hailed as one of the best films of the 2000s despite being narratively very similar to Disney's own version of Pocahontas. The same Pocahontas/John Smith relationship was the heart of that film as well, yet that film didn't get criticized for being historically inaccurate.

And from Tumblr, I've seen that Native Americans have very differing views on how they perceive the film and character. They are not a monolith in the sense that they all automatically despise the film as white woke Disney fans would like to claim. It's a lot more complicated than that.
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Re: Pocahontas 20th Anniversary

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Articles commemorating the film's 25th anniversary.

A Life, A Spirit, A Name: 'Pocahontas' Songwriters Reflect On The Disney Animated Classic 25 Years After Its Release
https://www.grammy.com/grammys/news/lif ... ears-after

‘Pocahontas’ Turns 25: “Colors of the Wind” Is the Best Disney Song of the ‘90s
https://decider.com/2020/06/16/pocahont ... -the-wind/

Making History: The 25th Anniversary of Disney’s “Pocahontas”
http://www.animationscoop.com/making-hi ... ocahontas/
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Re: Pocahontas 20th Anniversary

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^ Thank you for sharing!!
letter written by Duwamish tribe Chief Seattle to then-President Franklin Pierce. "I remember so vividly the first time I read, ‘There is no quiet place in the white man’s cities. No place to listen to the leaves of spring or the rustle of insect wings,'" Schwartz says. "If you look at the lyrics for ‘Colors of the Wind,' you can see how inspired I was by his words. I tried to capture the spirit of this philosophy and the cadence of Native American poetry." In fact, when the song won an Academy Award, Schwartz made sure to credit the award to Chief Seattle in his acceptance speech.
I think this is really neat. We don't get to hear/read as much about the songwriters' research.
The duo had written the song around the concept of an impossible metaphor: the visuals of something invisible..."The animators very cleverly turned it into blowing autumn leaves."
I wonder if people working on Frozen II referenced CotW for Gale...
In fact, towards the end of the creation of Pocahontas, Menken and Schwartz were tasked with composing the music for Hunchback of Notre Dame. "If I had to jump over and write a song for Hunchback and then come back, it could take a couple of days to just see through those eyes again," Schwartz says.
Super cool insight!!!
After previously being passed over for a Disney role years earlier, Williams cherished the opportunity to become a part of that world.
A quick Google search brings up nothing: Does anyone know which Disney role Vanessa Williams didn't get?? My guess would be Belle, either film or stage??

And that's cool that Vanessa Williams has Native American ancestry.
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Re: Pocahontas 20th Anniversary

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blackcauldron85 wrote:
After previously being passed over for a Disney role years earlier, Williams cherished the opportunity to become a part of that world.
A quick Google search brings up nothing: Does anyone know which Disney role Vanessa Williams didn't get?? My guess would be Belle, either film or stage??
It seems it was a role from The Lion King:
“Two years ago when I auditioned for a Disney project that is out now (“The Lion King”), the head of the animation department said I wouldn’t be appropriate for Disney animation but that I was fine for Touchstone,” she says, referring to the Disney Co. label geared toward more adult fare. “That was probably the last blatant conflict between my talent and my past.”

Although Peter Schneider, president of feature animation for Disney, says he has no recollection of such an exchange with Williams, he says, “We would never exclude a person based on his or her past history. If she was right for a role, we would certainly cast her.”
Source: https://www.latimes.com/archives/la-xpm ... story.html


Edit: It was the role of Nala: https://www.pressreader.com/uk/sunday-m ... 7883303610
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Re: Pocahontas 20th Anniversary

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^ Great detective work! Thank you! :)
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Re: Pocahontas 20th Anniversary

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Ellen Keneasha wrote:Disney has cut some pretty famous songs from their animated films, such as ‘If I Never Knew You” from Pocahontas. “The songs that we cut actually felt like they needed to be cut. It was unfortunate because there were some great songs.” She shared that the song was cut because test audiences laughed at it. Pocahontas had arrived to try to save John Smith and then they stopped to sing a duet.
I'm quoting this here because I wanted to address it. I get the point of the pacing issues this song had, but I'm wondering if it would have worked better if they had placed it when Pocahontas and John Smith meet at the forest before Kocoum is killed.
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Re: Pocahontas 20th Anniversary

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farerb wrote:
Ellen Keneasha wrote:Disney has cut some pretty famous songs from their animated films, such as ‘If I Never Knew You” from Pocahontas. “The songs that we cut actually felt like they needed to be cut. It was unfortunate because there were some great songs.” She shared that the song was cut because test audiences laughed at it. Pocahontas had arrived to try to save John Smith and then they stopped to sing a duet.
I'm quoting this here because I wanted to address it. I get the point of the pacing issues this song had, but I'm wondering if it would have worked better if they had placed it when Pocahontas and John Smith meet at the forest before Kocoum is killed.
The song "In the Middle of the River" was supposed to play during that scene you mentioned. I don't remember why they cut it now but they mentioned it on the deleted scenes commentary and I posted about it sometime back in another thread. It got replaced with "If I Never Knew You" although Menken and Schwartz both felt they could have retained both songs in the movie afterwards.

"In the Middle of the River" worked in that scene because it's a joyous moment where Pocahontas and John Smith feel they have no problems and can come out publicly with their relationship. "If I Never Knew You" is a melancholy song that doesn't suit the moment and it only is appropriate when the couple fears they will lose each other forever, thus after Smith is captured and sentenced for death.
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Re: Pocahontas 20th Anniversary

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@D82: I personally can't picture her playing Nala. As I was reading through your post and learned it was a role for TLK, I assumed Sarabi until I got to the end of everything you wrote.

I agree with the Decider article that the music definitely surpasses the film itself. That said, I think the reason "Colors of the Wind" doesn't quite get as mentioned *as* often as things like PoYW, UtS, BOG, AWNW, CoL, etc. is simply that at points the song comes off a touch preachy. Still, it's a very beautiful song with a beautiful vocal by Judy Kuhn; and it's likely the best a song that on the nose, and emphatically, espouses against racial hatred, greed, and taking the world for granted could possibly be. I'll be honest that I was never fond of Vanessa Williams' end credit version. I don't dislike Williams; the main things I like Williams for are Soul Food and Ugly Betty. I consider her character from the latter an honorary Disney villain. :lol: UB's creator even said she was inspired by Disney's classic villainesses like Cruella, Ursula, the Queen, etc.
From the research done for the film, came important details that were incorporated into the film, as animator Ruben Aquino discussed at the time. “It was common for the warriors of that tribe, or many of the tribes in that area, to shave only o be side of their head,” said Aquino, who served as Supervising Animator for Chief Powhatan. “It was because a lot of them were archers. So, to keep the bow arm free and to keep the hair out of the bow string, they shaved their hair on that side.”

In addition to these accurate elements, the filmmakers also designed a unique look for “Pocahontas,” one based on artist Eyvind Earl and the detailed style he brought to Disney’s 1959 film Sleeping Beauty.
From this one: http://www.animationscoop.com/making-hi ... ocahontas/

Both these were facts I hadn't known. I never knew they consciously based the design of the film after Sleeping Beauty.

Sometimes I wonder how Pocahontas would be viewed if it had been released in a different year during the '90s, rather than following TLK directly. Would it have received more or less backlash? I admit it's not one of my favorite films. The character of Pocahontas herself, Grandmother Willow, and the soundtrack are the main things I've taken from the film. I might have enjoyed it more if I liked the John Smith character, since the romance plays such a key role to the enjoyment of this film, but I found him to be as dull as most of the older Disney princes, tbh. Same with Phoebus, who followed in the film after this one and who has always felt like a rehash of Smith. Still, I'm happy that the film exists, warts and all.
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Re: Pocahontas 20th Anniversary

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JeanGreyForever wrote:
farerb wrote: I'm quoting this here because I wanted to address it. I get the point of the pacing issues this song had, but I'm wondering if it would have worked better if they had placed it when Pocahontas and John Smith meet at the forest before Kocoum is killed.
The song "In the Middle of the River" was supposed to play during that scene you mentioned. I don't remember why they cut it now but they mentioned it on the deleted scenes commentary and I posted about it sometime back in another thread. It got replaced with "If I Never Knew You" although Menken and Schwartz both felt they could have retained both songs in the movie afterwards.

"In the Middle of the River" worked in that scene because it's a joyous moment where Pocahontas and John Smith feel they have no problems and can come out publicly with their relationship. "If I Never Knew You" is a melancholy song that doesn't suit the moment and it only is appropriate when the couple fears they will lose each other forever, thus after Smith is captured and sentenced for death.
Yeah I guess that makes sense. Too many cut songs...
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Re: Pocahontas 20th Anniversary

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Do you ever watch the theatrical version after the 10th Anniversary Edition was released?
I personally don't and I didn't even bother getting the Blu-ray.
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Re: Pocahontas 20th Anniversary

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Yes, because my brain makes me automatically reach for the Blu-Ray. I still own the 10th Anniversary Edition, and I’ve been thinking I should give it a watch.
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Re: Pocahontas 20th Anniversary

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I'm sure people have seen this before but here is a beautiful performance of Judy Kuhn singing Colors of the Wind:
https://youtu.be/wcTZN5QslH8
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Re: Pocahontas 20th Anniversary

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Honest trailers: Pocahontas.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wyspEl3a4YA

Well, this was unexpected! Regarding it`s reputation, it was surprising that they even bothered to make a video about it at all! But not unexepctedly, they were completely bashing the movie. Despite how I`m not completely biased about Pocahontas and realize it`s flaws and why people are turned off by it, it`s still disappointing how they were constantly bashing it. And contradictory, since they previously said it was good on the Frozen video and now labeling it`s successors as failures (since they`ve praised Mulan previously).

Btw, it was surprising how they never mentioned Pocahontas`s beauty and sex appeal, due to how she`s practically synonymous with it :P
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Re: Pocahontas 20th Anniversary

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https://www.yahoo.com/entertainment/ste ... 34495.html
Stephen Schwartz wrote:“Colors of the Wind” was actually the first song that Alan and I wrote together. As with so many of these songs we’re discussing, the origins had to do with storytelling. We worked with our collaborators on the film in terms of the structure of the story and then identified what the musical moments might be. I always try to start with the path of least resistance — what's the song that seems clearest? For me, it was the song that Pocahontas sings to John Smith in which she espouses the Native American philosophy as opposed to the British colonial philosophy. I read a lot of Native American poetry and tried to bring that philosophy into it, while also trying to write a song that was right for the character and for that moment. It became something larger than the movie itself, but weren’t thinking that way. We were just trying to tell our story.
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Re: Pocahontas 20th Anniversary

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The song does have a sort of poetic quality at times. It's a very beautiful song, although the film sort of stops when she's singing rather than moving the moment along. Although, nah, I suppose I'm wrong on that point. It does move the story along as far as bringing John Smith and her closer together, with him understanding her and leading into the romance at the end. I guess because the romance doesn't really work for me, I sort of overlook its purpose as far as leading into the romance goes.
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