DVDizzy Forum

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2011 is the year of the Disney sequel. Official.

It appears some people are as perplexed by the news of a Car's sequel as me.

The most surprising listing is the "Cars" sequel. Despite it being John Lasseter's baby, "Cars" is generally considered Pixar's weakest effort to date and economically struggled to keep up with other films from the beloved studio.

As for Pirates 4

The biggest question mark right now is the fourth "Pirates". Reports say the franchise may try the "Wolverine" route - a more contained affair focusing on one character to downsize the budget. Other reports talk of a hyper-budget, ultra-fantastical feature, meaning anything from dinosaurs to Jules Verne-esque floating fortresses.

I'll just say, bigger does not equal better in my book - just look how the trilogy released to date walked down the path of confusion. The first idea sounds better to me.

Maybe because Cars was weak they want to make a sequel? .
Pirates 4 sounds neat ,Tron 2 is also great .

Tron 2

interesting. Very curious to see what they'll do with it. I hope they keep the 80s style of the original and don't let it become some sort of confusing Matrix: Reloaded.

Cars 2

Look, Cars made Disney money. BIG money. The merchandise is on the level Mickey, Pooh and the princesses. A sequel makes perfect business sense. I hope Pixar pulls a Toy Story 2 and make it better than the original. Shouldn't be too hard since Cars was their weakest film anyway.

Pirates 4

I seriously hope they focus solely on Jack and Barbossa and make it a bit more smaller scaled than DMC and AWE. The sci-fi ideas sound terrible.

National Treasure 3

I loved the first two. Great cheesy fun. Excited to see where part 3 will take the storyline.

How about Pirates 4 will be a prequel to the Black Pearl telling how Jack and Barbossa met? .

I wonder what Cars 2 would be like, considering it was Pixar's weakest movie.

Pirates 4, like some said earlier, should focus more on Jack and Barbossa.

I am not so sure about the other two.

Keep in mind, they may just be rumored.

PixarFan2006 wrote:I wonder what Cars 2 would be like, considering it was Pixar's weakest movie.

Pirates 4, like some said earlier, should focus more on Jack and Barbossa.

I am not so sure about the other two.

Keep in mind, they may just be rumored.

The Cars sequel has been in the talks for quite some time.

Me thinks they have a good story to follow up Cars already planned out. I trust that they know what theyre doing. They made Toy Story 2 after all and theyre gonna make a Toy Story 3!

You know, not long ago, Eisner was the target of everyone's hatred for doing things like... producing sequels!

Apparently, Iger (in conjunction with Lasseter) was supposed to stop all of this sort of thing, and put Disney back on the straight and narrow again, putting content above income.

Yet it appears, unless I am very much mistaken 2011 under Iger (and Lasseter), has the most cinematic sequels for Disney films in a single year ever. And you can't claim that films coming out in 2011 are still a hold over from Eisner's comissioning period.

Don't forget to check out
Disney Debates: Bring Back Eisner? too. Perhaps it's worth adding to the debate?

2099net wrote:You know, not long ago, Eisner was the target of everyone's hatred for doing things like... producing sequels!

Apparently, Iger (in conjunction with Lasseter) was supposed to stop all of this sort of thing, and put Disney back on the straight and narrow again, putting content above income.

Yet it appears, unless I am very much mistaken 2011 under Iger (and Lasseter), has the most cinematic sequels for Disney films in a single year ever. And you can't claim that films coming out in 2011 are still a hold over from Eisner's comissioning period.

Don't forget to check out
Disney Debates: Bring Back Eisner? too. Perhaps it's worth adding to the debate?

I have two words: production values.

I think most people had a problem with the poorly produced DTV's that touched upon Disney's classics and not sequels in general. The oldest movie of these new sequels is Tron (and I doubt today's mainstream audience even knows this film) The other films (pirates, national treasure, Cars) all involve the original cast, writers, directors, etc.

There's a big difference to me between Johnny Depp once again reprising his role as Jack Sparrow and a bunch of unknown Korean animators poorly animating classic characters like Cinderella and Dumbo.

PatrickvD wrote:I think most people had a problem with the poorly produced DTV's that touched upon Disney's classics and not sequels in general. The oldest movie of these new sequels is Tron (and I doubt today's mainstream audience even knows this film) The other films (pirates, national treasure, Cars) all involve the original cast, writers, directors, etc.

There's a big difference to me between Johnny Depp once again reprising his role as Jack Sparrow and a bunch of unknown Korean animators poorly animating classic characters like Cinderella and Dumbo.

Do you think Johnny Depp is coming back for Pirates 4? I know he's publically said he's willing to, but if they are looking to save money on the sprialing production costs, it seems to me that Depp would be the first to "go".

As for original cast and writers, this hasn't stopped Disney from cancelling sequels to Meet the Robinsons and Chicken Little. And it having the original creative team still doesn't lessen the complaints of lack of originality which Eisner kept getting stuck with (even when making totally original films like Treasure Planet or Brother Bear ironically!)

2099net wrote:

PatrickvD wrote:I think most people had a problem with the poorly produced DTV's that touched upon Disney's classics and not sequels in general. The oldest movie of these new sequels is Tron (and I doubt today's mainstream audience even knows this film) The other films (pirates, national treasure, Cars) all involve the original cast, writers, directors, etc.

There's a big difference to me between Johnny Depp once again reprising his role as Jack Sparrow and a bunch of unknown Korean animators poorly animating classic characters like Cinderella and Dumbo.

Do you think Johnny Depp is coming back for Pirates 4? I know he's publically said he's willing to, but if they are looking to save money on the sprialing production costs, it seems to me that Depp would be the first to "go".

As for original cast and writers, this hasn't stopped Disney from cancelling sequels to Meet the Robinsons and Chicken Little. And it having the original creative team still doesn't lessen the complaints of lack of originality which Eisner kept getting stuck with (even when making totally original films like Treasure Planet or Brother Bear ironically!)

I'm pretty sure Disney knows they have no fourth Pirates without Depp.

From what I heard sequels to MTR and Chicken Little were going to be outsourced. I doubt the original creators were going to have anything to do with them. Only the voice actors would return since they are contractually obligated to.

And calling Brother Bear original (it got the green light because Eisner wanted to re-create the succes of The Lion King with Bears) is a bit of a stretch to me Especially with Phil Collins re-hashing his Tarzan stick and the Pocahontas themes thrown in the mix. The "original movies" Disney was making in Eisner's last days suffered because of David Stainton and the corporate grip on the studio.

no I'm pretty sure with Lasseter in charge of Disney's animation division they are in a better place right now creatively. And when I look at the tight grip he has on making sure The Tinkerbell movie isn't going to exploit beloved Disney characters like in Eisners days, I'd say that at least the animated releases coming out of Disney are going to be good. At least nothing like DTV's.

anyway, just my opinion on Disney now VS then.

PatrickvD wrote:And calling Brother Bear original (it got the green light because Eisner wanted to re-create the succes of The Lion King with Bears) is a bit of a stretch to me Especially with Phil Collins re-hashing his Tarzan stick and the Pocahontas themes thrown in the mix. The "original movies" Disney was making in Eisner's last days suffered because of David Stainton and the corporate grip on the studio.

Re: Phil Collins - I have only 2 words. "Randy Newman"

As for Brother Bear, of course it was original. What other Disney film had no villain? It's not like the Lion King with Bears at all. If anything it's Bambi, but its more complex with more themes than Bambi.

The Lion King is Shakespere being heavily based on Hamlet.

As for Pocahontas, again, the similarities between Brother Bear and Pocahontas are less than say, between Sleeping Beauty and Cinderella. I can't particularly see any apart from both are rooted in Native American culture. All the princess movies are rooted in European culture - from Walt's era and from the "Fab Four" era, yet I don't here complaints about that.

It seems to me that even you are saying "Cars 2" is [potentially] more original than Brother Bear or Treasure Planet or Atlantis ever were?

2099net wrote:

PatrickvD wrote:And calling Brother Bear original (it got the green light because Eisner wanted to re-create the succes of The Lion King with Bears) is a bit of a stretch to me Especially with Phil Collins re-hashing his Tarzan stick and the Pocahontas themes thrown in the mix. The "original movies" Disney was making in Eisner's last days suffered because of David Stainton and the corporate grip on the studio.

Re: Phil Collins - I have only 2 words. "Randy Newman"

As for Brother Bear, of course it was original. What other Disney film had no villain? It's not like the Lion King with Bears at all. If anything it's Bambi, but its more complex with more themes than Bambi.

The Lion King is Shakespere being heavily based on Hamlet.

As for Pocahontas, again, the similarities between Brother Bear and Pocahontas are less than say, between Sleeping Beauty and Cinderella. I can't particularly see any apart from both are rooted in Native American culture. All the princess movies are rooted in European culture - from Walt's era and from the "Fab Four" era, yet I don't here complaints about that.

It seems to me that even you are saying "Cars 2" is [potentially] more original than Brother Bear or Treasure Planet or Atlantis ever were?

I don't really have an opinion on Cars other than if it's another Toy Story 2 why not? Pixar always has said they only do sequels if there's a good story that demands to be made. Let's see if they can stick to their word.

And I am definitely not saying Treasure Planet and co weren't original. Quite the contrary, they were very original. Especially compared to 90s Disney films, wich followed a musical theater formula. The problem was that they all suffered from story problems. Thanks to corporate micro managing. That's really my only problem. I doubt Cars is potentially more original, considering Cars wasn't very original beyond its premise anyway.

as for Randy Newman, I don't think his oscar winning stick is getting that old. There's much more diversity in his music than there is in Phil Collins. I like him, but he's a pop star first, a songwriter/composer second. Newman's work imo, comes closer to Alan Menken and the Sherman Brothers.

As for Brother Bear, the character deaths, the transformation, the spirits theme, it was all combined a little too familair. I like the movie, but it was never as unique as say Treasure Planet or even Home on the Range. Nothing made it stand out. Like you say it was complex and had more themes than Bambi. To me that was the problem. If you're going to have a variety of themes you need to spend time on them. The rivalry, guilt, anger, loss and transformation. The movie went by too quickly to deal with all these themes in a way that it touches its audience like Bambi did. At least that's how I felt.

PatrickvD wrote:I don't really have an opinion on Cars other than if it's another Toy Story 2 why not? Pixar always has said they only do sequels if there's a good story that demands to be made. Let's see if they can stick to their word.

I can accept and I do believe Lasseter does/did have a sequel story for Cars in mind. But come on, how can you defend another Pirates film? That's a trilogy where no sequel was mapped out after the first film, and even now, they don't even know what the forth film's going to be about or who's going to be in it!

as for Randy Newman, I don't think his oscar winning stick is getting that old. There's much more diversity in his music than there is in Phil Collins. I like him, but he's a pop star first, a songwriter/composer second. Newman's work imo, comes closer to Alan Menken and the Sherman Brothers.

Oh that's a low blow Patrick, throwing in the carefully calculated words "oscar winning" Well done.

But I sort of agree and disagree about Collins. I don't actually like his singing. But I like his compositions. I can't remember the score from Brother Bear especially, but I can't remember the score from Toy Story either. As for the songs, I love his Demo of "Son of Man" on the Tarzan 2 disc DVD where he has only his "vocal beats" rather than the (unwritten) words. I think its superb - better than the final song.

As for Brother Bear, the character deaths, the transformation, the spirits theme, it was all combined a little too familair. I like the movie, but it was never as unique as say Treasure Planet or even Home on the Range. Nothing made it stand out. Like you say it was complex and had more themes than Bambi. To me that was the problem. If you're going to have a variety of themes you need to spend time on them. The rivalry, guilt, anger, loss and transformation. The movie went by too quickly to deal with all these themes in a way that it touches its audience like Bambi did. At least that's how I felt.

Ah, but all that is mainly execution rather than originality. I suppose the transofrmation can be compared to Beauty and the Beast, spirits to Mulan etc, but I don't really see any of that as lack of originality. There's only so many elements you can have in a magical tale after all. I see Brother Bear as being a film with ambition, and while it may not have lived up to it's ambition, its easier to fail when reaching for the stars than when simply reaching out of the gutter.

Also, I'm not an Eisner apologist - I have no doubt bringing Brother Bear forwards a year put pressure on the creators. (Yes, the script should at this point be finished, but even Brad Bird on the Ratatouille cineExplorer commentary admits he writes and films the opening scenes (and a few others) towards the end of the production after everyone working on the film has a stronger grasp of the characters, their movements and their personalities).

Cars 2

Ehh..I'm semi-excited for this. I was entertained by the first one. (although the first time I saw it in the theatre, I feel asleep...but only because I was extremely tired!)

Tron 2

I still haven't seen Tron, and am not that interested in it in the first place, so I might go and see this.

Pirates 4

Yay! More Pirates!!

National Treasure 3

I really like this series. It's..suspenseful. So I'm looking forward to this.

Tron 2: Never saw the first, don't care much about a second
National Treasure 3: Assuming it's at least as good as the second, I'm excited about it
Cars 2: I loved the first one, so they better not muck this one up
Pirates 4: Resolve everything in one movie, don't rely too much on past movie history, and keep it more cheery than the second and third movies, and there's a chance I'll like it

I'm going to take a step forward and say that I'm frankly shocked that so much hatred toward sequels is now getting "warm and fuzzies"! Most of those sequels I am NOT looking forward to. Actually, National Treasure 3 is truly the only sequel I feel is justified.

I can't blame Disney for continuing a money making tradition of cashing in on popular franchises. But where is the payoff of original well-developed stories that we were promised? I sincerely hope these sequels don't pan out.

Walt said it himself, "You can't top pigs with pigs". He hated making sequels and only did so when pressure (monetary or critical) mandated it (Son of Flubber, Savage Sam, etc.). Every time it was inferior. However, they were all moneymakers.

Now I bring up the ever-hated cheapquels. Terrible in quality and story. Obviously inferior. However they were extremely big money makers.

HHHhhhhhhhhmmmmmmmmmmm...........................




I have to go with Netty on this one. People come on! Just because Disney is under new management does not mean that Disney executives are going to change. I won't defend Eisner (because I have serious qualms with his later career), but I also won't stand by and let history repeat itself.

How is this any different than what Eisner was doing? Why are people okay with this? This is the SAME thing! Sequels, upon sequels, upon sequels, upon sequels in one fiscal year!! Nothing new or original.

2099net wrote:

PatrickvD wrote:as for Randy Newman, I don't think his oscar winning stick is getting that old. There's much more diversity in his music than there is in Phil Collins. I like him, but he's a pop star first, a songwriter/composer second. Newman's work imo, comes closer to Alan Menken and the Sherman Brothers.

Oh that's a low blow Patrick, throwing in the carefully calculated words "oscar winning" Well done.

no kidding, I was like should I throw oscar winning in there or not?¿ would it be funny or overkill? Phil Collins is an oscar winner too after all

anyway, what you said is kind of true. I think I have a problem more with execution than originality.

And I do see your point on the issue. For now, maybe this discussion will be more interesting when official info comes out or when we're closer to a release date for any of these sequels.

When I saw "Cars 2" I almost threw up in my mouth a little.

The only one of these sequels I care about is National Treasure 3.

I'm buying baby!!!! Wooohooo!!!!

2099net wrote:Do you think Johnny Depp is coming back for Pirates 4? I know he's publically said he's willing to, but if they are looking to save money on the sprialing production costs, it seems to me that Depp would be the first to "go".

Johnny Depp has said numerous of times Capt. Jack Sparrow is his favorite character that he has ever played as and has said he's not ready to "let go" of this character. With that much attachment, it's almost certain to say he'll be back no matter what, even with a lower paycheck(if such was necessary).

And Bloom and Knightley can easily be left out, so there's where to "save production cost" if Disney were looking for such.

2099net wrote:You know, not long ago, Eisner was the target of everyone's hatred for doing things like... producing sequels!

Apparently, Iger (in conjunction with Lasseter) was supposed to stop all of this sort of thing, and put Disney back on the straight and narrow again, putting content above income.

Yet it appears, unless I am very much mistaken 2011 under Iger (and Lasseter), has the most cinematic sequels for Disney films in a single year ever. And you can't claim that films coming out in 2011 are still a hold over from Eisner's comissioning period.

Well, coming from me personally, I never had a problem with sequels.

I may not be fond of most DTVs, but I never thought they were as awful and harmful to Disney's impact as claimed to be.

While Eisner maybe far more hated than he deserved to, and I have quite a few problems with Disney currently(most noted here) I don't think these sequels are that bad. They can still be creative and well made, we just need to give them a chance.

Here are my thoughts on all of them:

Tron 2: Probably one of Disney's strangest ideas in a while(and that's saying quite a lot). I must confess I have never seen the original Tron(I'll probably Netflix it eventually) but from what I know, it was basically an attempt to cash-in at Star Wars, and while they were at it, made film history by being the first movie with computer-generated imagery. I don't know why Disney's making this honestly. I know this is supposably to be the type of film to be a cult classic, but I've yet to know truly huge fans of it on all the Disney/movie forums I'm on(let alone general public). I think a remake would actually be better than a sequel so they can introduce a new generation to this ambitious film as not many enough know about the original for a sequel.

Cars 2: I actually like this idea as I've thought of an idea for a sequel(although, I'm sure it's too controversial for Disney's or Pixar's taste ). But still, I'm looking forward to this. I loved the original(I certainly don't find it to be Pixar's weakest film, which I don't know why people think so), and a sequel can make this Disney's Rocky franchise. I would also love for them to expand on the "all-Cars" universe(which I also love). Maybe give us a tour of the how their world works(though that'd be better as a short probably which is also rumored to be made).

Pirates of the Caribbean 4: Well, I love the POTC trilogy, as most already know, and am completely up for more, but I'm not sure how'd they'd write around the Fountain of Youth plot they set up. A prequel would probably be a better set-up than the Jules Verne one. My only fear would be is that it would be too much like Star Wars, which is already very similar too. Either way, I'm there opening day.

National Treasure 3: Although this seems to be the only sequel people here are "up" for, this is the only one I'm a tad against. I was disappointed by the sequel and am not thrilled by a third installment. I'll most likely see it, I just hope it's as good as the original.